MS&E 472 - Entrepreneurial Thought Leaders Seminar Series

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Welcome to the Spring 2008 edition of ETL! Please report any problems you encounter to the website team. Please note that you are encouraged to reply to others' posts. We want to facilitate discussion instead of having everyone make their own topic! On the other hand, if you want to bring up a new topic, then please do create one.

#1 2008-01-16 22:01:55

Nevin.McConnell
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Registered: 2007-10-03
Posts: 16

Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I was struck by what Mitch said about how 10-15 years from now, Second Life may be as popular and commonplace as PCs.  He drew a similarity between personal computers in the 80's being a very niche item, until Windows and the Mac OS, when their sales and popularity exploded.  He predicted something very similar might happen with virtual worlds.  As someone who has never used Second Life, it makes me sad to think that so many people might be replacing real life with a fantasy world.  Now I admit that I'm ignorant to any positives gained from participation in Second Life, but it seems like when people use these virtual worlds to replace real human interaction, we lose out.

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#2 2008-01-16 23:15:26

Jules.Maltz
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Posts: 7

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I disagree that virtual worlds and necessarily negative. People were worried that the Internet (or even the telephone ) would eliminate face to face interaction and our society would suffer socially. While there are people who abuse new technology to this extreme, the benefits of a new type of social interaction have emerged and many people are now more connected with others around the world than ever before.  While I believe in the power of virtual worlds, the interesting question for Second Life is how long it will take until there is mass adoption. The PC revolution lasted 15+ years and it seems that we are only in the early stages of virtual worlds.

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#3 2008-01-16 23:32:52

Solomon.Lee
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Registered: 2008-01-12
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Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

On the issue of when the virtual world will adopted on a mass scale and replace many in-person interactions with other people, I would argue that it has already taken effect to a large degree on many of our common behaviors.  The average college student probably spends the majority of his or her time on the computer when in the dorm room.  Email and instant messaging has probably become a more common communication method then appointments or head to heads.  Shopping can be done conveniently at home.  Research, study, gaming, and nearly everything that can be done without actual physical activity has already been accessible for years online.  The virtual world does not necessarily have to be a program like Second Life.  It is already largely in effect, and we have already grown a dependence to it.

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#4 2008-01-16 23:44:38

Joel.Jean
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Registered: 2008-01-09
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Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I've never used Second Life before, but while I agree that, at some point, we--all people, not just Second Life developers--have to take special care to make sure virtual worlds do not supersede immediate human interaction, such technology clearly has its benefits. As Mitch hinted at today, virtual reality has the potential to completely reinvent social interaction as we know it, and few would argue that technology in the mold of Second Life is indisputably evil or socially regressive. For a outrageous yet chillingly familiar counterexample, read Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash. Mass adoption of virtual worlds will depend on a function of network effects, and who can guess how that will ultimately play out?

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#5 2008-01-17 09:18:29

Sonal.Mittal
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Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I think there's something else to consider about the parable Mr. Kapor drew between the PC and Second Life. Certainly the early developers of the PC envisioned very different computers (in all of size, design, and functionality) in the homes of users than those that are in use today. Similarly, some of the concepts of Second Life, for example spatial interaction and modeling, are compelling designs that could make their way into the interfaces of other applications without actual proliferation of avatar-based virtual worlds. Is there necessarily a social interference aspect to the growth of Second Life ideas?

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#6 2008-01-17 15:49:18

Kelton.Lynn
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Registered: 2007-01-23
Posts: 23

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I would definitely belive there is a social inteference aspect in regards to the potential growth of Second Life.  However, I think there is already a major pandemic of kids completely escaping into virtual worlds and thus avoiding all social interaction due to very successful products like Xbox live, etc.  Second Life sounds like it very well may simply transcend this further to people of all ages, keeping non-physically social lives not only exclusive to gamers and kids.

My big question that I didn't get the chance to ask is how Second Life has been so successful with an abysmal retention rate? Mitch mentioned that only 1 in 10 visitors to the site ever come back.  I don't think PC's would be so popular if 1 in 10 users never touched a computer again...

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#7 2008-01-17 22:35:53

Martina.Drmanac
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Registered: 2008-01-15
Posts: 8

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I think that after all talk of the negative effects of getting lost in virtual world, it is important to note some areas that would greatly benefit from virtual reality. For example, Mr. Kapor mentioned using a virtual world for training purposes, which would make it alot easier to role play. Perhaps there could be virtual tutoring, coaching, or even therapy. Alot of psychiatrists conduct behavioral retraining to help people get over phobias by trying to put them in the exact situations that frighten them, which is often quite challenging. Virtual therapy could help with that...

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#8 2008-01-18 02:24:16

Paloma.Ochi
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Registered: 2008-01-17
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Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I definitely think that there are benefits to having a virtual world like Second Life.  Although I've never actually been on Second Life, I have heard that companies can use it as a type of research tool.  For example, companies can see how people move around and use the spaces that they are in, which can help designers create effectively-used spaces.  In regards to the threat that Second Life will replace the real word with a virtual world, I don't think that this will be much of a problem.  Yes, people will use the virtual life technology if it is available, but at the same time, this technology allows developers/designers to improve other aspects of REAL life.  There is definitely value in that.

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#9 2008-01-18 12:17:01

Misha.Bykov
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Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I agree that virtual words could improve REAL life as well. I believe, everyone can learn a lot from a virtual world. Mitch Kapor said that Second Life is really a platform, it has to force creativity and innovation by the people who use it and develop their services, commercial and non-commercial. Actually, the Second Life effort is an extension of Web presence for many companies and corporations around the world. As an example, technology companies like IBM, Cisco, Microsoft, and Sun Microsystems, have presences in Second Life. They do their announcements, conferences, advertisement and so on. If some person's budget is restricted to go to a big event he would like to attend, there could be an analog of the event in a virtual world.

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#10 2008-01-18 12:34:25

Jeff.Keacher
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Registered: 2007-10-08
Posts: 15

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

Virtual worlds can be very popular -- witness the success of Second Life and World of Warcraft -- but I think their audience will remain limited to a small subset of PC users.

One of the biggest problems with virtual worlds is their tendency to become outdated and for their users to move to other services.  Does anybody still play Everquest?  What about LORD?  Does anybody even remember LORD?

Virtual worlds have been around for decades and have always been time consuming and addictive.  Even so, the majority of the populace continues to spend the majority of its time in the physical world.  I see no change for the future.

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#11 2008-01-18 13:11:25

yiliu2
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 9

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I think it's hard to say whether Second Life will prove to be a lasting benefit and follow the path of PCs in the next 10 years. It creates a virtual environment that emulates real world, which as we all know, have lots of +'s and -'s.

I also have never participated in Second Life, but after some initial research, it seems to be a great tool for real life businesses. Hotels can put up "second life" versions of hotels they are planning to make and test it out before building the real one. Retailers can place certain objects in their stores and obtain feedback without too much investment. Even educational forums can be conducted in Second Life settings. Since I'm an SCPD student, I would be curious to see how my avatar can interact during class.

On the negative side, as Mr. Kapor mentioned, there are issues Second Life has had to interfere with such as unaccredited banking systems. Furthermore, it seems that Second Life has also run into problems with child pornography. Although Second Life prides itself in giving its users the freedom to create and build, just like in real life, that liberty can be used for terrible purposes. Perhaps once Second Life figures out how to deal with the harmful aspects of the system, it can become a virtual environment that is not only beneficial for social interaction, but also profitable for businesses and other institutions.

Check out this Introduction to Second Life. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b72CvvMuD6Q&NR=1


Yi Liu
MS&E HCP

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#12 2008-01-18 14:53:31

Mandy.Zibart
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Registered: 2008-01-16
Posts: 7

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I'm taking a class on what goes on in Second Life so it was nice to hear Mr. Kapor's thoughts on what inspired the creation of the virtual world and where he sees it going. He mentioned several ways in which SL can be used to facilitate positive social interaction such as using it for educational or philanthropic purposes, but there have yet to be conclusive studies on what people are actually doing in the world. There are no concrete objectives for users so people have no qualms in doing whatever they want to do; common practices include shooting other avatars in "non-safe" zones, incessant gambling, and unrestricted sexual activities. I'm not saying that there is a problem with these kinds of activities in a virtual world, but merely pointing out that the behavior many people engage in is more objectionable than some may think.

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#13 2008-01-18 15:28:28

Bobby.Georgescu
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Registered: 2008-01-09
Posts: 7
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Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I think that it is important not to get caught up in the hype when considering things like Second Life. While SL has been getting a lot of press attention and has been the platform for all sorts of gimmicky things (virtual Swedish embassy, IBM press conferences, etc.) I really have yet to meet someone who uses it regularly. The truth is, in-person interaction trumps all other forms of communication. Even in the age of Skype and webcams, many people still prefer to meet in person if at all possible. While technologies like Second Life can make it easier to communicate for people that are geographically scattered, they cannot (and in my opinion, will never) replace personal interaction.

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#14 2008-01-18 19:07:10

Alif.Khalfan
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Registered: 2008-01-16
Posts: 8

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I would agree with Bobby with what he has to say about not getting caught up in Second Life.  I had the opportunity to visit Linden Labs (2L headquarters) in 2004, and see what was going on from the Administrative end.  They had mentioned to our group back then that the majority of the users were coming from Europe, and were primarily older people-- around their mid 30s.  I have to say, though, that the manner in which Second Life makes money is pretty interesting.  The administrators can create a virtual piece of land in the world with the snap of their fingers, and can sell it for real currency.  I had no idea how people were going to pay for this kind of stuff four years ago, but here we are in 2008, and Second Life is starting to take off!

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#15 2008-01-18 23:36:31

Frank.Mycroft
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Registered: 2007-10-09
Posts: 22

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

It certainly will be interesting to see how Second Life and other virtual worlds develop in the coming years.  I see no reason why, ten years from now, virtual worlds could not turn into the OS of the future, replacing the need for separate sources for computing, television, phone/video conferencing, movies, music etc.  So while I was intially surprised by Mitch's comment on Second Life's potential, I now see his point.  Regardless of whether virtual worlds develop so extensively, I appreciated Solomons comments on how all of this interconnectivity can actually isolate people.  When it comes to human interactions, quality often trumps quantity.

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#16 2008-01-19 23:49:28

Michael.Wendelken
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Registered: 2008-01-19
Posts: 15

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I recently heard about the use of Second Life as a test-bed vehicle to pitch fund-raising strategies for both non- and for-profit start-ups. The theory being this would allow residents to employ a particular methodology or strategy in a virtually risk-free environment, then to employ those lessons learned to the real thing. Additionally, this would allow users to spread ideas and concepts via this popular social networking interface. I see power in this type of thought-process in that it will encourage innovation and perhaps offer some semblance of "virtually empirical" supporting evidence to potential investors and sponsors.  However, I wonder about the true validity of conducting analysis in a consequence-free environment such as SL, then attempting to translate those results to generate real-world effects. Certainly some degree of applicability can be gleaned from the results, provided it is all taken in context.

I have no experience at all with SL, but I see a good deal of utility in modeling applications. Based its popularity and widespread use, I imagine that imbedded in the program's knowledge base is a robust representation of human behavioral response to the stimuli being presented in the virtual world. This may be occurring already, but perhaps it is a good mechanism to conduct high-fidelity simulations of problems that have inherent variables with some degree of unpredictability. For example, we could test the long-term consequences and social implications of various alternative energy strategies, we could test the effects of various economic stimulus packages, immigration strategies or even construct trials of campaign strategies or speeches....all utilizing/implementing the robust database of choices that have been made throughout the history of the virtual world.  This would be particularly powerful if we could overlay environmental and economic models to accompany the “social model” of SL to get a holistic glance of the possible consequences of particular courses of action.

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#17 2008-01-20 08:38:30

Daniel.Haddock
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Registered: 2008-01-20
Posts: 8

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I do not have an Avatar and have never used Second Life, but I think the idea that SL might become as common as PCs is intriguing. I'd like to see if that holds true. I am doubtful it will because in 10 to 15 years, who knows where we'll be. Perhaps there will be an new and improved version or SL or simply a competitive market.  I think SL is a great opportunity to run lots of tests and simulations. Going off of what Mandy said, I think SL will only be successful if people act in a similar fashion to everyday life. If people go on shooting rampages in SL, how accurately does that reflect the peoples' true sentiments. Would they do the same in real life if they were given the opportunity? It seems overly dramatic, but I think that running tests and trying to learn from an avatar that doesn't reflect people's true actions and feelings will have limited scope. You have to give it the designers. They make money from a virtual world. People pay hard currency in order to decorate their "image" and actions. I think it's crazy to spend lots of money on a computer generated image, but if it's profitable to exploit that, then more power to them.

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#18 2008-01-20 15:19:14

Michael.Lau
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Registered: 2008-01-09
Posts: 8

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

The concept of Second Life is definitely on the rise as more and more people start living in the internet world.  We already started with similar activities through online gaming as people started selling items in games like Diablo and Warcraft.  Engineering collaboration across long distances can also be facilitated through programs similar to Second Life.  Perhaps it can link to programs by Autodesk or Solidworks to get a completely virtual environment for design?

Personally, I prefer social interaction in person, but I enjoy working on schoolwork online.

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#19 2008-01-21 12:51:12

David.Shih
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Registered: 2008-01-21
Posts: 7

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I believe current disadvantages in SL are based on the lack of accountability that residents have in their actions. Of course, this may also often serve as a positive effect by promoting creativity and liberatin. However, my belief is that as network bandwidth, computational power and traffic!?! ramp up in years to come, the flexibility and convenience of working, playing or meeting in a net environment could become 'common sense'. Accountability of acts or some type of governmental body implementation will be key to bridging the gaps between a virtual world to our real world activities. In addition, I am eager to see the deployment of high accuracy/fidelity 3D based simulators that will elevate the user experience in a virtual world in the near future.

Last edited by David.Shih (2008-01-21 12:53:35)

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#20 2008-01-22 14:29:20

Keith.Knapp
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Registered: 2008-01-16
Posts: 8

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

The popularity of the concept of a Second Life in a simulated world may be on the incline, but there is a limit at which its popularity simply will not be able to reach any farther. From what I have heard of the game, it's not just a simple game to sit down and play for an hour when one has time, but rather that it requires the player to play for hours on end. The market for such a product, in my opinion, must be limited by people who actually live in the real world and simply are not interested, nor do they feel the need, to give life a second try.

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#21 2008-01-22 15:51:43

Yan-Chun.Lin
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Registered: 2007-04-11
Posts: 16

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I don't really have much virtual world experience and so far I still prefer interacting with people in real life.  However, I'd like to see the virtual world as just a different channel for people to communicate.   A new innovation attracts people only if it creates values for the users.  Whether it will endures or not depends on the benefits it brings to people consistently.  Therefore, there's no need to predict the future of SL.  It will finally find its way out.  We, as a consumer, just need to keep looking around and search for what we like.  How enjoyable it is to be a consumer who doesn't stick with a product!!

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#22 2008-01-22 20:42:48

Kevin.Wang
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Registered: 2008-01-09
Posts: 7

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I definitely believe that the concept of Second Life is on the rise. So it won't be a surprise if in 5 to 10 years it makes a lot of profit and becomes as popular as Facebook. However, it seems to me it's still too early to argue about the possibility of this kind of "virtual worlds" dominating over our real world. Second Life is more likely to become a popular entertainment (mostly among teenagers) like many successful online games, rather than an interaction platform that can replace even part of real-life social interaction.

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#23 2008-01-23 05:05:52

Riddhi.Mittal
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Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 7

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

Michael.Wendelken wrote:

I recently heard about the use of Second Life as a test-bed vehicle to pitch fund-raising strategies for both non- and for-profit start-ups. The theory being this would allow residents to employ a particular methodology or strategy in a virtually risk-free environment, then to employ those lessons learned to the real thing.

"Multinational corporations use virtual worlds to solve real problems in business. IBM has over 40 islands on SL and has used ‘Active Worlds’ as a platform for a ‘meeting of the minds’ for employees from several countries. It also operates a large complex on SL where virtual world innovators collaborate with clients to investigate means to boost productivity. " - The Hindu

I think SL is an excellent tool for nurturing skills be it social, entrepreneurial, political or any other totally different skillset.

That said, it deserves more mention for the pro 3D-virtual world trend it has brought about and will continue to bring about on a much larger scale for the next couple of years. As one of you said, it's nice being a consumer and just enjoying products, i think it is totally noteworthy how a consumer-centric world can very easily and quickly help popularise the tiniest bright idea because almost all of a sudden, producers want to compete for making available to the consumer, the idea in its "best" form. "There" for example is one other competitor of SL, and there are many others in the pipeline.
"Active Worlds" is another virtual reality platform. It is different from SL however, in that it lets a user build an interactive 3D world in which he can sortof "showcase" or even sell whatever he wants to, and other users visit his world.
It's amazing how much of a demand there can suddenly be for 3D animators, models, textures, avatars, graphics, worlds, softwares etc.

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#24 2008-01-23 15:28:03

Patrick.Blaes
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Registered: 2008-01-09
Posts: 1

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

As someone who has spent some time on Second Life, I personally feel that it is overly hyped.  It certainly is not a "game" since it has no clear goals and is not fun to play.  However, I did find it interesting how Mitch Kapor plans to use it as a sort social simulation for companies to reenact certain situations.  This is one area where I feel virtual worlds, such as Second Life, may actually be useful.

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#25 2008-03-16 15:53:59

yao.meng
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Registered: 2008-01-16
Posts: 7

Re: Second Life...as commonplace as PCs?

I had the same question before as how Second Life has been so successful with the retention rate of 1 out of 10 visitor come back.  After using Second Life as part of my research project related to virtual reality, I think part of the answer goes to advertisement.  Just like any online community and media provider, the main revenue comes from the advertisers who want to target thousands of online users who may not know their behavior has been segmented and reported to the advertisement industry.  Monetization can be very tricky nowadays for publishers.  Advertisement means much more than a brand ad on TV or radio, it can be a flash or a text ad on some web pages you are visiting,  but it is so precise that it seems already bonded to your consumption behavior.  Second life is not just a virtual world of virtual information, it has a lot of valuable behavior information which can be monetized greatly.  Another interesting fact is that I found some big companies such as IBM or SONY have their virtual "booth" in Second Life to attract users.  What does advertisement in virtual world mean to the public?  I think it is commercial profit in reality.

However, success in commercial world might not be the ultimate goal in our society.  I have a lot of concerns about kids and people of all ages escaping into virtual worlds and avoiding all social interaction.  If things keep going into virtual, this practice is very questionable as regard to our social value system.

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